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	<title>Miscellanea Agnostica &#187; Madeline Kara Neumann</title>
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	<description>... an agnostic view of the world ...</description>
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		<title>Prayer Over Medicine Results In Convictions</title>
		<link>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2009/08/02/prayer-over-medicine-results-in-convictions/</link>
		<comments>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2009/08/02/prayer-over-medicine-results-in-convictions/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>PsiCop</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Metaphysics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[blasphemy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[dale neumann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Madeline Kara Neumann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[medical care]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[medicine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religious freedom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[weston WI]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wisconsin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/?p=937</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#8217;ve blogged several times already on the case of Madeline Kara Neumann, who died because her parents prayed instead of getting her medical treatment which would have saved her life. Her mother was convicted, and now, so has her father, as the AP reports: A central Wisconsin man accused of killing his 11-year-old daughter by [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/03/27/religion-kills/">I&#8217;ve blogged</a> <a href="http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/04/28/criminally-religious/">several times</a> already on the case of Madeline Kara Neumann, who died because her parents prayed instead of getting her medical treatment which would have saved her life. <a href="http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2009/05/30/mother-defends-killing-daughter/">Her mother</a> was convicted, and now, so has her father, <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5idOw7yXOoyaU14MWjkJIllXXjMoQD99QBD7O0">as the AP reports</a>:<br />
<blockquote>
<p>A central Wisconsin man accused of killing his 11-year-old daughter by praying instead of seeking medical care was found guilty Saturday of second-degree reckless homicide.
<p>Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted in the March 23, 2008, death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes. Prosecutors contended he should have rushed the girl to a hospital because she couldn&#8217;t walk, talk, eat or drink. Instead, Madeline died on the floor of the family&#8217;s rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Their excuse for letting their daughter die rather than get medical care? Using conventional medicine, the Neumanns believed, would amount to blasphemy:<br />
<blockquote>
<p>Neumann, who once studied to be a Pentecostal minister, testified Thursday that he believed God would heal his daughter and he never expected her to die. God promises in the Bible to heal, he said.
<p>&#8220;If I go to the doctor, I am putting the doctor before God,&#8221; Neumann testified. &#8220;I am not believing what he said he would do.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, delusional believers putting trivial matters like life and death before God&#8217;s instructions is an old story. It&#8217;s the cause of numerous religiously-inspired atrocities throughout history. Fortunately two juries in Wisconsin have finally chosen not to give this sort of thinking a &#8220;pass.&#8221;</p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Mother Defends Killing Daughter</title>
		<link>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2009/05/30/mother-defends-killing-daughter/</link>
		<comments>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2009/05/30/mother-defends-killing-daughter/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 17:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>PsiCop</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fuzzy Thinking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Metaphysics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conviction]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[delusion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith-healing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[leilani neumann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Madeline Kara Neumann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[religious exemption]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wisconsin]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/?p=745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I blogged twice before (here and here) about the case of Madeline Kara Neumann, an 11-year-old girl who died of complications from diabetes, whose life easily could have been saved, but who hand&#8217;t been treated because her parents &#8212; knowing something was wrong &#8212; chose to pray about it instead. It was a young life [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I blogged twice before (<a href="http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/03/27/religion-kills/">here</a> and <a href="http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/04/28/criminally-religious/">here</a>) about the case of Madeline Kara Neumann, an 11-year-old girl who died of complications from diabetes, whose life easily could have been saved, but who hand&#8217;t been treated because her parents &mdash; knowing something was wrong &mdash; chose to pray about it instead. It was a young life snuffed out because of idiotic religiosity.
<p>After a great deal of hand-wringing over &#8220;religious freedom&#8221; concerns, and seriously entertaining not doing anything about it, officials finally charged the parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann; Ms Neumann&#8217;s trial has just finished, and she was convicted.
<p>Nevertheless, she remains in denial as to what she did wrong, <a href="http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20090526/WDH0101/90526032/1981">as the Wausau <em>Daily Herald</em> reports</a>:<br />
<blockquote>
<h3><a href="http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20090526/WDH0101/90526032/1981">Neumann: &#8216;I did what I thought was lawful&#8217;</a></h3>
<p>Leilani Neumann, the town of Weston mother convicted of allowing her daughter to die while praying for healing, says in a written statement that her emotions do not hinge on whether the rest of the world approves of her actions. &#8230;
<p>“I did what I thought was lawful,” Neumann wrote in a statement released over the weekend. “I didn’t realize it would be a crime to pray for my daughter.”</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure why Ms Neumann thought she faced a mutually-exclusive &#8220;either/or&#8221; choice, to <em>only</em> pray for Kara, or <em>only</em> get treatment for her. Lots of religious folks manage to do both. (That&#8217;s what hospital chapels and chaplains are for!) The Neumanns&#8217; pathological denial goes further than that, however:<br />
<blockquote>
<p>Neumann also was critical of the judicial system in her letter, writing that “this trial did not afford the opportunity to tell our side of the story.” Neumann’s attorney, Gene Linehan, chose not to call any witnesses during the trial. Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard did not allow a faith healer from Texas to testify at the trial, however.
<p>“I believe the law should be more clearly written before any charges can be made against parents who pray,” Neumann wrote. “Where is the law written that we apparently broke? And someone make sure to tell everyone that this is no more the America we thought it was. Also, please tell them not to try to hide it behind ‘reckless homicide charges or neglect charges,’ because the real issue is our local and national government is turning more and more anti-God.”</p></blockquote>
<p>For a second time the Neumanns reiterate the &#8220;either/or&#8221; choice to pray or get medical treatment, which as I said, does not exist. Moreover, they perceive the conviction as an &#8220;anti-God&#8221; thing, rather than as anti-manslaughter, which it is.
<p>It&#8217;s a good thing this happened in Wisconsin instead of Texas, <a href="http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/06/29/freedom-of-religion-or-freedom-to-harm-in-texas/">which offers explicit legal permission to harm, and even kill, people</a> as a form of religious expression. (Seriously &#8230; I intend <em>never</em> to set foot in Texas unless it&#8217;s absolutely necessary &#8230; because in that state, anyone could do anything to me, and so long as <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25423465/">they can pass it off as a religious rite</a>, it&#8217;s permissible and I can do <em>nothing</em> about it.)</p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Criminally Religious</title>
		<link>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/04/28/criminally-religious/</link>
		<comments>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/04/28/criminally-religious/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>PsiCop</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fuzzy Thinking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Metaphysics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[homicide]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Madeline Kara Neumann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[medicine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prayer]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/04/28/criminally-religious/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I blogged earlier about the death of a girl at the hands of parents who knew she was sick but refused to get any medical care, hoping instead that prayer and faith would take care of her, and not really caring if she died. The good news: Today, authorities decided to charge her parents with [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="/ma/2008/03/27/religion-kills/">I blogged earlier</a> about the death of a girl at the hands of parents who knew she was sick but refused to get any medical care, hoping instead that prayer and faith would take care of her, and not really caring if she died. The good news: Today, <a href="http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesResource/story?id=4741254" title="ABC News story about Dale and Leilani Neumann">authorities decided to charge her parents with reckless homicide</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>The parents of an 11-year-old Wisconsin girl who prayed instead of seeking medical help for the diabetic child are facing homicide charges in connection with her death.<P>Dale and Leilani Neumann were charged with second-degree reckless homicide, Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad announced at a press conference today. If convicted, the couple could be sentenced to up to 25 years in prison.</p></blockquote>
<p>The Neumanns’ ignorance and obliviousness is downright sickening:</p>
<blockquote><p>Dale Neumann, a former police officer, told The Associated Press at the time that he started to perform CPR on his daughter “as soon as the breath of life left.”</p></blockquote>
<p>If this guy knows CPR, why didn’t he try it when it might have been useful — <em>before</em> the breath of his daughter’s life left? If he truly knew CPR then he knew it was too late, by that time!</p>
<blockquote><p>In an interview with The Associated Press, the girl’s parents confirmed that they believe healing comes from God, but said that they did not want their child to die, that they are not zealots and that they do not have anything against doctors.</p></blockquote>
<p>First, these people are <em>definitely</em> “zealots,” regardless of what they may claim. Second, they may not exactly have willed their daughter to die, but they certainly did <em>absolutely <strong>nothing</strong></em> to <em>prevent</em> her death, and that’s functionally the same thing.</p>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Religion Kills!</title>
		<link>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/03/27/religion-kills/</link>
		<comments>http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/03/27/religion-kills/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>PsiCop</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[General]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[David Eells]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Madeline Kara Neumann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[medicine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[prayer]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/2008/03/27/religion-kills/</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two parents’ devout faith has cost the life of a girl &#8230; their own daughter: Parents’ Faith Fails to Save Diabetic Girl Cops Mull Charges After 11-Year-Old With Undiagnosed Disease Dies Easter Sunday Wisconsin authorities will consider filing charges in the case of an 11-year-old girl who died on Easter Sunday of complications from diabetes [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two parents’ devout faith has cost the life of a girl &#8230; their own daughter:</p>
<blockquote>
<h4><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Health/DiabetesResource/story?id=4536593">Parents’ Faith Fails to Save Diabetic Girl</a></h4>
<h5>Cops Mull Charges After 11-Year-Old With Undiagnosed Disease Dies Easter Sunday</h5>
<p>Wisconsin authorities will consider filing charges in the case of an 11-year-old girl who died on Easter Sunday of complications from diabetes that went untreated because police say her parents’ obscure religious beliefs do not allow medical intervention.“When you’re dealing with an 11-year-old child, your first thought is neglect,” Capt. Scott Sleeter, a spokesman for the Everest Metro Police Department in Wisconsin, told ABC News.</p>
<p>Madeline Kara Neumann, who went by the name Kara and was the youngest child of Leilani and Dale Neumann, died Sunday of “diabetic ketoacidosis,” according to a Marathon County autopsy report. Efforts were made to revive the little girl, whose diabetes had never been diagnosed, when she stopped breathing at the house, officials say.</p></blockquote>
<p>We have, then, a girl who died of diabetes — which could have been prevented since the signs of its onset were not, in this case, instant — because her parents chose “faith” over medicine.</p>
<p>Yes, folks. <em>Religion kills.</em> It really <em>can</em> &#8230; it sometimes <em>does</em> &#8230; and in this case, it <em>did</em>.</p>
<p>What makes this case even worse is that the parents and the odd sect of whom they are part, are totally unrepentant about this. In <a href="http://www.wsaw.com/news/misc/17059726.html">their own statement on the matter</a>, they said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Sometimes we stumble because of lack of faith or repentance in an area but hopefully we correct this and get back up. ‘The righteous shall live by faith.’ Those who do not know Jesus through being born of His Word think it is a terrible thing to die and it is for them.</p></blockquote>
<p>You read that right: These people see absolutely nothing wrong with a child dying for lack of medical care. For them, this is “God’s way” and they’re quite happy with it. If their cold-blooded lack of concern for the life of a child doesn’t make you sick, there’s something wrong with you.</p>
<p>Welcome to the wonderful world of the extreme lunacy that “faith” sometimes drives people to!</p>
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